Is adoption about keeping secrets or about taking care of a human being?
To find out that everyone else but you knew who’s child you were and yet, couldn’t be bothered to tell you! I’m sorry, I’m seriously upset at the thought that the hell I experienced was somehow better.
Same for me. Everyone else knew who were my natural parents and extended family and they kept it to themselves. What’s worse, my adoptive family knew who my natural family were and some even socialized, went on camping trips and such together. Guess they thought because I was adopted that I shouldn’t know – ever – and they went on with their lives knowing the truth. When I found out the truth, it hurt, especially knowing that all these people were God-fearing people and good, upstanding Catholics! Praise the Lord! No sinnin, just keep Joannie away from her blood kin ’cause she ain’t supposed to know! And guess what? Even though it was treated as a stranger adoption, I was adopted by a distant cousin of my deceased natural mother. The older generations knew the family connections and kept it to themselves, then they wondered why I was so hurt and angry for a childhood away from my own siblings and cousins and aunts and uncles. What liars! My adoptive family willfuly kept me apart from my own siblings and this was for my own good? Nope. I don’t accept it. Even if this were treated as a relative adoption, it still would be an adoption. There’s mindblowing identity issues with being raised by your own family but in different relationships. In reality, my adoptive fatehr was my step first cousin twice removed (meaning that they thought the distant realtionship wouldn’t matter being treated as a stranger adoption). Sounds crazy, but once I got out the charts and traced both famly trees I could see how the two families were intertwinned. My adoptive father’s older half brother was a blood cousin to my natural mother. He was twenty years older and took her as a child to a local amusement park. talk about messing with the adoptee’s head. Why the secrets if everyone else knew?
Gert here: As usual Joan doesn’t really answer the question nor does she give us any concrete solutions. All she has done here is repeat her story, like that will help! Look at her ‘tone’, you can ‘feel’ the anger she has for being adopted! That is what is totally inside of Joan…anger! She will never learn, that, by the very nature, of the act of adoption, that it MEANS that the identity is CHANGED and that it is IMPORTANT for the development of the child and family unit to survive without the original family connection. She OUGHT to be glad that she was found and knows her birth family and that she has her original birth certificate. Others don’t and she could care in the least, all she can do is scream her hate and anger.
Joan says….willfuly kept me apart from my own siblings and this was for my own good? Nope. I don’t accept it
Gert: of course she doesn’t accept it for the very reasons I just stated! All she is willing to SEE is that she was kept apart and in the dark…nothing else matters to Joan. She condemned the adopted parents and they will stay condemned. Joan doesn’t understand the pyschological upheaval that would occur if the child knew the natural parents and could not be with them, and at the same time, be bound to be with ‘strangers’ called the adoptive parents! There are solid reasons for the change of identities in the process of adoption.
Joan says….Everyone else knew who were my natural parents and extended family and they kept it to themselves.
Guess they thought because I was adopted that I shouldn’t know – ever – and they went on with their lives knowing the truth.
Gert: again, that’s the nature of the business of adoption…only those ‘who needed to know’ know, those that don‘t need to know don’t, like Joan, didn’t know. Get over it already! NO infant gets the right to be told anything that the state and parents deem they should not know.
Joan says…. When I found out the truth, it hurt, especially knowing that all these people were God-fearing people and good, upstanding Catholics! Praise the Lord!
Gert: Okay, I shall grant you that finding out about ones background, ie being adopted, can be a shock and that perhaps a person can be/is hurt, but that doesn’t give Joan, or anyone else for that matter, the right to call the adoptive parents liars. They and their ‘church’ were OBEYING the law of the land. In the discussion of adoption a religious organization, and/or their doctrines, have no bearing on the issue of BEING adopted. Some religious doctrines, such as the Catholic Church’s, may indeed be out of touch or unreasonable, but we are NOT talking about religious doctrine…we ARE talking about the institution of adoption. The laws of the land MAKE such laws for their citizens, and whether the Church or it’s believers like it or not, THEY are bound to obey the laws of the land BEFORE the church. Joan believes as if only her opinion matters against the thousands of years that human beings have been adopting others and have developed laws and institutions to accomplish the ways and means of giving orphans, of any strip, a HOME WITH PARENTS!
Joan says….traced both famly trees I could see how the two families were intertwinned. My adoptive father’s older half brother was a blood cousin to my natural mother.
Gert: The two families were not that intertwined…it is only in Joan’s mind that she believes all this nonsense. I never knew about the connections and didn’t SEE any intertwinning going on as I was growing up. The family didn’t need to tell anyone about ‘connections’…a baby was placed out of the family into adoption and NO ONE spoke of that baby AGAIN. Even if and I do say if, there was a ‘cousin-ship’ it was so far in the distance that it was not important enough to have played any important part in either Joan’s or the other siblings’ lives. It is only Joan that makes a mountain out of a mole hill.
Joan says….He was twenty years older and took her as a child to a local amusement park. talk about messing with the adoptee’s head.
Gert: so someone, who was a distant cousin, took our mother to a park! The way Joan is relating this makes it sounds ‘dirty’ or something! But Joan has a dirty mind-set anyway so this doesn’t surprise me.
Joan says….Why the secrets if everyone else knew?
Gert: Because… stupid! the act of adoption means that the original birth parents and birth name of the one being adopted are SUPPOSE to be changed and kept secret for the safety of the on-going development of the child and the integrity families. But Joan and the others will never understand the complexities of adoption.
Joan says: “What’s worse, my adoptive family knew who my natural family were and some even socialized, went on camping trips and such together.”
Okay – Here’s Joan doing her own dam twisting of the facts again.
My mother’s sister Catherine went to grammer school with Helen. When my mother was sick in the hospital, my mother’s brother and his wife took Joan in as an infant. After my mom died, my uncle asked my father what he was going to do about the baby. Because his wife was going to have a baby and there were other kids too. Catherine talked to Helen and Helen said her brother and his wife couldn’t have kids and wanted to adopt – so they asked my father (NOT at my mom’s funeral, like Joan likes to lie about). My father consulted his pastor and then agreed to the adoption. He re-married several months later. He had one year to change his mind about the adoption. He didn’t.
Helen and Catherine continued to socialize – and why not? They had known each other since they were children. Their children would go on camping trips together – another time, Catherine took her kids to an amusement park. By coincidence, The Wheelers took Joan to the amusement park on the same day and they bumped into each other. My cousin Gail was the same age as Joan and looked at Joan and was confused. Because Joan looked just like me. Her mother told her not to tell me about this little girl and Gail obeyed her mom. She was TEN years old.
and this is what Joan is bitching about. They kept the LEGAL requirements of the adoption – silence. Do you think it was easy on Catherine to see Joan – her sister’s child and not reach out and hug her? All Joan thinks about is herself.
And then bitch and moan about Gail – I can’t remember where it was – it might be in the book, but I think it was somewhere on the internet where Joan condemns Gail for NOT telling her that she was her cousin! What the f did I just say? They were both 10 years old, neither one knew who the other was. Gail’s mom told her nothing but just told her to keep quiet. Gail never knew this girl’s name, where she lived, why she looked like her cousin Ruth. The next time the girls saw each other was in 1974 – 8 years later – POST-REUNION! So why is Joan blaming Gail for knowing her adoptive cousins (Helen’s kids) and keeping secrets from her – because the LEGAL system required it. And Gail didn’t know anyway!
As to this one: ” He was twenty years older and took her as a child to a local amusement park. talk about messing with the adoptee’s head.” – “He” – a Wheeler, distantly related to “her” – my mother – took my mother to, coincidentally, the same amusement park!
NOBODY WAS MESSING WITH THE ADOPTEE’S HEAD! For god’s sake – the amusment park was Crystal Beach Amusement Park in Ontario, Canada, a popular amusement park – where everybody went. If you grew up in Western New York and Southern Ontario and the Niagara Frontier – there was a big chance you went to Crystal Beach. I’m sure there were chance meetings there all the time.
For crying out loud – it’s like me saying I went to DisneyLand in the 60′s the same time George Clooney went there and we were both kids and I didn’t know that 30 years later he would grow up to be a handsome movie star. And he didn’t give me an autograph when we were at Disneyland. – no, I never bumped into George Clooney, I’ve never even been to Disneyland – but I used this scenario to show you what stupid nonsense goes round and round in Joan’s head – put there by herself – not by anyone else. she’s such an ass!
oh – well by the way – I graduated high school with actor Jeff Fahey – star of the movie The Lawnmower Man – dam, he never gave me his autograph when we was at Bennett together. And the little punk didn’t take drama classes with me. He should have re-arranged his classes so that we could have been in the same drama class together.
And my goodness – funk rocker Rick James dropped out of Bennett just before I got there! What the hell!? What was his problem? He didn’t stay in school – didn’t he know that moi, Ruth, was coming there the next year? He should have stayed in school because Ruth was coming and he needed to be there to meet Ruth.
And Lord of the Rings star Viggo Mortenson grew up in Watertown, New York – let’s see – he’s about the same age as me. When my foster parents had a cabin up near Black Lake, we would be in Watertown. Why oh why didn’t Viggo come and see me? And Gert lives in that vicinity – Viggo – you’ve not gotten hold of Gert yet?
People’s lives get intertwined all the time – and little coincindences like this happen all the time. It has nothing to with delibrately “messing with anybody’s head.” Joan is such an ass.
gertmcqueen Gert here…
Hey Ruth…I didn’t know that you knew Rick James!! Why didn’t you tell me?? You should have told me! I’m stunned and shocked that you lied to me. Why are you keeping secrets from me?? I worked with someone who knew his mother and my friend NEVER told me that her friend’s son, Rick James, went to the same school that you went too! I’m shocked, I’m stunned!! You have been keeping secrets from me all these years…ON PURPOSE
And another thing…just because I told you that Viggo is from Watertown, doesn’t mean that he lived up here when you and I went to Black Lake! You make it sound like Viggo SHOULD HAVE made contact with YOU because of me…BTW oh how I wish he would make contact!!! But, no I don’t know Viggo! But I’ve probably have seen him at the MALL! and I’m keeping that a secret from you because, well just because I can!!
And yes, Crystal Beach was the place to go….I took my children there when they were toddlers…how come I didn’t see…my god…was THAT Joan I saw that day at Crystal Beach?? I’m stunned!!! I thought that those Wheeler’s were good Catholics…I was in those days…and if they saw me, in the late 60s and they KEPT JOAN FROM ME…they must have seen how MUCH I look just like their little adopted girl Joanie…and they didn’t stop and say Hello!! They kept secrets from me!!! I’ll never get over this!! How am I ever going to get over this traumatic situation? My life is so full of lies and secrets! I thought they were DISTANCED cousins, those Wheelers…why oh why didn’t they say hello to me?? that day at Crystal Beach in the 60s?
I’ll just never get over being destroyed just because they never told me the truth about Joan!!
oh Gert – get over it! and grow up. and by the way – why don’t you READ what is written? I didn’t say I KNEW Rick James – I said that he dropped out of school BEFORE I got to the high school. – Besides YOU lied to ME – you kept secrets from ME! – you worked with a woman who knew Rick’s mom and YOU NEVER TOLD ME!
You have ruined my life! The lies, the secrets – you have messed with my head – we can never have a relationship – because of the secrets and the hypocrisy. The falsification of information – I can’t handle this. I’m going inside my head and listen to the voices. Perhaps I can reach my pre-natal self, who while residing in my mother’s womb, I listened to some Elvis Presley music – I’m pretty sure it was Elvis – they didn’t tell me when I was born what songs were on the radio when I was in utero. oh the pain – the pain of it.
Ruth because of YOU… I stayed up all night long, in my self-pity, lamenting and crying and tearing my hair because I didn’t READ your message right! I knew, I just knew that you would be after me, harassing and bullying me, just because I’m the eldest! You want me to be your big sister and make me into what your inner life is telling you that I ought to be..but..I’ll show you…I’ll spend the rest of my life telling everyone, over and over again, how nasty you are and how mean you are to me,…just because I didn’t READ what you said and I just THOUGHT I knew what you said…
No…I didn’t lie to you, you never ASKED me if I knew anyone that knew Rick James! How am I to know what you wanted to know??You have to TELL ME so I know what to lie about or not lie about!
Your life is the life I MADE UP in my head…so how could I have ruined your life? I don’t want a relationship with some who DOESN’T fit the pattern that I created IN MY HEAD…so no I did not mess with YOUR HEAD….it’s all IN MY HEAD and I ought to know…whats in my head.
Elvis…you really think that was Elvis you heard…in utero?? yes…the pain of it all….
you know Gert – I have had it with your attitude. – I’m trying to do something here – trying to instruct people on how to think – an you keep interfering – so I’m gonna show you – I’m gonna write a book about the dangers of interfering relatives – especially those who are second cousins ten or eleven times removed – you do know that we didn’t come in on the Mayflower – or do anything important in the Civil War and just because someone married someone 150 years ago – I will make sure I devote lots and lots of time in my book for that – because it’s important. ANYthing I have to say is important.
And I don’t know why you are bringing Elvis Presley in this conversation – it wasn’t Elvis I heard in utero – It was Perry Como. And I know what I heard – because I even know what food was ingested by my mother when I was utero – I remember the smells – I was a very smart fetus. I even think if I was hypnotized I’d be able to remember the sound of your voice.
Readers – in case you think we’ve gone completely daft – the above comments were written in “The Joan Wheeler Style” – the contradictions, the ridiculous accusations, the stupidity of it all – the blaming of innocent people – the bullshit about distant relatives (who cares?) and yes – she has talked about her “pre-natal” self as if during gestation she was a cognizant being that understood sounds, smells, voices of the outside envrironment.
If Joan were a serious scientist, doing research to see how much a fetus comprehends in the womb, I would think what she had to say would be fascinating. But when she got on the Adult Adoptees Forum and started discussing songs on the radio and what foods our mother ate – I knew she was just bullshitting. – and those members on the forum didn’t even blink an eyelash! Are they as stupid as Joan? Apparently so. I mean – what fucking fetus can determine and be cognizant of the difference between a roast beef sandwich and a bowl of soup or a plate of spaghetti? Give me a fucking break!
Attitude!! hey I’m not the one with an attitude…I’m just telling my story, from my point of view, if that’s good enough for Joan Wheeler than it ought to be good enough from you! How long will your book be? 1,000 pages? You gotta to have more pages than Joan because there is so much more information about me that you could write about that Joan doesn’t know!! Have you been keeping up your daily workbook of notes that you took from every conversation you had with every relative you ever spent 30 minutes or more with? You do have to exploit them all for a good book!
what’s the matter Ruth, can’t you remember what you wrote about from one comment to the next? You most certainly did bring up Elvis, who is a far cry from Perry. Smart fetus? Sounds like you have been reading too many books on pop-psychology or maybe have you been reading Joan Wheeler’s book? Of course you have! that book certainly has given you alot of smarts!
And yes…readers…this is what happens to you if you study Joan Wheeler like we have