adoption, birth/adoptive families, browbeating people over adoption, browbeating to get your own way, confrontations with Joan Wheeler, cyberbullying, family honor, Forbidden Family a book of lies, sins of omission and suppress of one's own misdeeds
1 of 2 Dissection of Joan Wheeler’s words, lies and hate-speak on a Adoptive Families Circle discussion April 2012, part one
‘What is said in society is heard for generations and people repeat it and believe it’…quote by Joan Wheeler
In this two-part post, part two’s link is here…
BUT BEFORE WE GET TO THIS POST HERE IS AN UPDATE…I have had to create a new blog and a Facebook page to counter the NEWEST lies, via a NEW book by this person
NOW TO GET BACK TO THIS POST….
I am pointing out the lies and hate within Joan’s comments placed on the following discussion forum. It is very important for people to KNOW how this woman thinks and what she does. I am using the initials HO for halforphan and JW for Joan Wheeler. I am also NOT placing everything she said, for most of it is propaganda that I’m not interested in. The entire thread is available @ http://www.adoptivefamiliescircle.com/groups/topic/Question_re_taking_postings_off/
My, Gert’s comments are in italics
FIRST POST BY JOAN:
“It is through the voice of adopted children …”
It is insulting to address adoptees as children. Children are not speaking here. Adults are. That is part of the problem. What is said in society is heard for generations and people repeat it and believe it. “Adopted children” are minors. Adoptees who speak their minds in forums such as this are adults. We are continually viewed as perpetual children.
Gert here…Look at this statement that Joan Wheeler wrote…What is said in society is heard for generations and people repeat it and believe it…and this is just what we birth siblings have been saying…that JW has written and promoted a whole different reality, that she most insistently believes and keeps presenting it to the world, for generations and people will continue to repeat it and believe the falseness of it all. This is what we mean by our Family Honor was stolen by Joan Wheeler.
Yes, if more adoptive parents and people who want to adopt (yes I referred to these people as adoptive parent wanna-bees) would actually pay attention to what adoptees have been saying ….then there would not be the multi-billion dollar adoption industry today. Adoption is baby-trafficking, but the politically correct term is adoption. Business people make money buying and selling babies and children.
Gert here…This is why JW goes out there beating people up, because of the wrong-headed nonsense about what adoption is or is not…sorry I don’t get it. Regardless, this is NO reason for JW to go out there and beat people up because they want to adopt.
I haven’t disappeared; I’ve been on pain meds for the last few days, unable to move.I am not afraid to express my feelings, nor am I afraid of debate.I copied, pasted, and saved the entire dialogue that was removed. And I am not ashamed for anything I wrote. I would gladly re-post anything and everything I said because nothing I said was hateful. Angry, yes, and with reason.I find it revolting that a woman who wants desperately to be a mother would take another woman’s infant at birth. Yes, it is coercive to enter into pre-birth matching. It is insulting to call a pregnant woman a “birthmother” or a “BM”. She’s not a “natural mother to be” as someone wrote here, a pregnant woman is a mother! She has a baby inside her! From the time I was very young, I was taught to respect pregnant women (who taught me that? My adoptive mother who could not conceive) as the givers of life.
Gert here…If JW/HO has so much recurring pain she would do best to get off the computer and take care of her health, instead of browbeating people. JW/HO does not debate; she browbeats and intimidates, is not interested in the other’s opinions or feelings. She only wants to beat people up because she is an angry militant adoptee. So apparently, JW/HO has said something that WAS REMOVED already!! Isn’t she the pot that calls the kettle black? She can say want ever she wants, usually hate-speak, but others, particularly birthsiblings, are NOT allowed to. And she and only she determines what is anger and hate! Interesting! She’s the expert, is she not?. Just because HO’s feelings are revolted over someone else’s actions does not give her the right to beat them or others up. This is what is WRONG in her tactics.
….If you have had many miscarriages, seek grief counseling to eventually accept your losses.Adoptees have no choice but to accept their lot in life.
Gert here…well this is my personal opinion, but it seems to me that EVERYONE has a choice in accepting their lot in life! This is just part of HO’s faulty logic
Our birth certificates were ( and are) confiscated by our government, our mothers and fathers and siblings were taken from us, then we are given false birth certificates with the names of two people who have truly not conceived nor given birth to us. Adoption is set up on loss and lies.Yes I am 100% anti adoption.
Gert here… again, my personal opinion, I disagree that this logic…and for a person HO to believe and say they are 100% anti-adoption AND be on this thread of adoption, can only mean, that HO is looking for a fight. She loves beating people up who believe in any form of adoption.
As I have stated in the post that was removed, family preservation should be first priority, then, kinship care, and if necessary, guardianship, and never, never, never, adoption. …. Adoption is a class issue: the rich get the babies from the poor.As I said here, I will gladly re-post any and all of my posts from the thread that was taken down. I will defend everything I said. Posted by halforphan56 on Apr 20, 2012 at 3:54am
Gert here…So, it does APPEAR that it was HO’s comments on a previous thread that was REMOVED! Keep this in mind, for JW’s imaginary friends blame birthsibling for having the comments CLOSED on this particular thread! Again, separate rules for HO/JW. This logic of family preservation/kinship care is just not fully thought out…there is NO utopia in the world, there are plenty of ‘gray’ areas, that HO/JW NEVER thinks about. And of course, she WANTS to be able to repost everything she said because that is the only life she has!
SECOND POST BY JOAN:
G said: “I do think the comments came out of prejudice, hatred. And spite. I do not think they were said in a way to educate. I feel sorry for the people who wrote them. Their lives and experiences must have been terrible. Sometimes kids get stuck with crappy parents and that can happen in the adoption world and the biological one. I will pray for them.”
No, my comments did not come from prejudice, hatred or spite. They came from my heart. And I don’t need your prayers as I am not Christian. You can pray if you want to, but it won’t make a difference in my life. If praying makes you happy, do it.
Gert here…Look at the condescending attitude and this is what HO/JW calls debate! She doesn’t give a damn about the others feelings and then she MUST comment on the uselessness/benefit of prayer…just because she DOESN’T believe it that faith. JW doesn’t know how to win and influence friends.
What I do need, however, is for you to realize that the comments made by adult adoptees, including myself, are meant for adoptive parents to learn from what has happened to us so you can be aware and not make the same mistakes. Yes, the system of adoption needs to change, but so do the mindsets of people who want to take other parents’ infants and call them their own.Many cruel and spiteful words and actions have been flung at me all of my life simply because I am adopted.
Gert here…HO has no problem DEMANDING what she wants/needs from the other person. It is HO/JW’s purpose to make everyone learn what they NEED to learn so they DON’T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKES. What is she MOTHER JOAN? Again, we see where her abuse came from, the adoptive family. The birth family, after we found her, experienced NOTHING but trouble from her and she just doesn’t GET IT. So no it’s not because she was adopted, it’s because of her behavior!
When I was found by family I did not know, I was again victimized. Extended adoptive family saw me as being disloyal to my adoptive parents for participating in a reunion. For an adoptee to be reunited with natural family is not in any way an act against adoptive parents. It is a discovery of one’s family of origin and heritage. One set of parents does not negate the other. My adoptive mother was furious that my sisters found me and she acted out, screaming and yelling at me, throwing pots and pans, and screaming that she was just a babysitter. I was 18 at the time. I reassured her by saying “I have two sets or real parents”.
Gert here…this is HO/JW’s CONSTANT refrain, her story, WHAT she can’t let go of and GET A LIFE. Here is see where the ABUSE came from…the adoptive mother. That is whom JW/HO is angry at and with but she refuses to acknowledge it and separate it from the birth family. Instead, she also blames the birth family.
I have been victimized by adoption and do not want any child to be needlessly separated from his family due to closed, sealed, and secret adoption. There is no need for it. Family preservation and kinship care can handle situations in which parents need help. Linkage to appropriate social services can help. These are temporary supports for people in poverty and there are ways to improve one’s life without giving away an infant. I am a social worker, so I know. Same applies for drug addicts. Or homeless mothers. I’ve worked with them to set up goals and achievements so that they can become clean and meet standards to be reunited with their children and raise them.
Gert here…She is victimized, doesn’t want any child to be separated from family (too bad she didn’t take better care and have more concern for her own birth children), she has a strange utopia concept that is totally unworkable. She NEVER worked as a social worker, in real life situations, where she would HAVE GOTTEN the reality of the larger world. All she has done is READ books by other angry people who want utopias. Even if she really WORKED with the less fortunate you would THINK that she could have APPLIED those skills to herself and improve her own lot in life, but she has NOT. This type of discourse/debate is just padding the argument with lots of words and conceptions to confuse the reader…no one really reads all of HO/JW’s diatribes.
….The adoptee has to emotionally and psychologically cope with this. That is why I say for adoptive parents and pre-adoptive parents to read, read, read. Know what you are getting into. Know what your adoptee will face. Is this really what you want to inflict upon a child?
Gert here…HO/JW forgets a couple of very important aspects of the human condition…that the primary factors that motivate any human are…food and sex and reproduction…when a couple want food or sex or a child, they will NOT read, read, read…they just FUNCTION.
I have said this on the post that was removed.
Gert here…and I would bet that what she has spend so much time, in her pain, was to repost everything she said before that was removed. What she didn’t except on this thread was the inclusion of the birthsiblings. That got her angry and she attacked.
No, I do not believe that adoption should exist. I do not think that people who want to adopt should adopt. It is unwise to be in the mindset to take a baby for the only reason is that you want to adopt. Why? To fill a void in your life? The baby will make you happy or fulfilled? Children are not playthings and the way adoptions have been handled and are still conducted, the baby is the commodity, everyone else are the adults in control, well, maybe not the pregnant mother nor the father of the baby. They are pawns in the adoption system. People think they are being kind and generous to adopt. They get praised: “How wonderful of you to do this”. No, it is not wonderful. Adoptive parents are not saviors, yet many see themselves that way.
Gert here…All these ‘argument’s of hers is what SHE experienced and was told by the adoptive mother for the reasons they adopted. She is still as powerless as she was as a child against the ‘grownups’ that would not listen to her. So she goes out there and MAKES everyone LISTEN to her, that is the only place she can feel power. Feel her power; it’s called anger.
My adoptive parents loved me so much that they prevented me from knowing my siblings, keeping me all to themselves. They knew, but they did not tell me because they never wanted me to know. My father (natural) was told to stay away from my adoptive parents and from me – the court judge told him to stay away. His wife had just died and he was given no other option but to give up his youngest child, a newborn, to adoption. In today’s society, no one in their right mind would do that, nor would anyone expect a grieving spouse to give up the youngest or any child to adoption. In divorce, the non-custodial parent has visiting rights and the child has rights to both parents. In divorce, the child’s birth certificate is not altered nor sealed. When you are the child who was adopted, and you grow up to realize what was done, there is not only resentment, but mental confusion, anguish, and grief, deep, profound sadness. It is a burden to live life in this way.
Gert here…HO/JW never accepts the reality of life. It doesn’t matter what you or I think about something, if it is a law, it is the law, if you don’t like the law, go to the law-makers and have it changed. Beating people up will NEVER change any law! JW REFUSES to accept the facts of her placement…and this is where the birth siblings come in the picture and why JW beats us up. We have been telling her forever the truth, but she refuses to accept it. There WAS no one to help our father, his second wife REFUSED to take care of an infant and he NEEDED that wife to take care of the four OLDER children he had and the one that she had. In common language, to save the older children he had to place the youngest out of our lives…that is the real world situation at that time. JW will NEVER accept it and therefore she is angry and will beat everyone up, until they think like her. It is ONLY in JW/HO’s mind and heart that she has all those negative feelings and that her life is a burden.
Educate yourselves before you enter into adoption. Educate yourselves if you have young adoptees and if you have adult adoptees. You cannot know the other sides until you are educated. Go to adoption conferences sponsored by American Adoption Congress or Adoption Crossroads. Please.
Gert here…HO/JW should talk about educating one’s self. She doesn’t listen to anyone’s opinion that differs from hers…a person either does it her way or you are wrong.
And no, I did not “have a bad experience” as in ONE bad experience or as if that negates my points. My comments are just as valid as anyone else’s. I shouldn’t be dismissed because I point out negativity. My entire relinquishment, adoption, and reunion were mishandled by many people. I was the only one caught in the middle. I paid the price. And so did my now young adult children.
Gert here…HO/JW again is trying to confuse people by saying she did NOT have one bad experience? According to her, and more accurate, her entire life is a bad experience! Her comments are ‘as valid as anyone else’s‘…but she never allows the same validity to one who has an opposing view, such as the birth siblings. Perhaps if she weren’t so negative people might be more willing to listen to her. See her anger, her negativity…everything was mishandled by many people, she was caught in the middle, she paid the price and so did her children. Reality is that her children paid the price because of their mother’s (JW/HO) behavior which caused the birth family not wanting anything to do with and therefore her children. Her children have suffered because their mother has a hard-on against adoption and mental illnesses. JW refuses to accept that she was AN INFANT and infants CAN NOT speak from themselves. JW is also NOT the only person who ever had a beef with their parents. She really ought to just grow up.
I see what’s wrong with the system and how people become indoctrinated to believe that adoptees shouldn’t be told, or the natural family is this way or that way, and adoption is the only answer. If we lived in a different country, we would think differently. It is our American culture that has made our adoption system the way it is.
Gert here…and HO/JW will ram this down everyone’s throat until they choke.
BTW, all of my parents are now deceased. I took care of my adoptive Mom for 11 years before her passing and we had a difficult, but loving, relationship to the end. My adoptive father died in 1982 and was remorseful for lying to me. My natural father never wanted to give me up, he told me so. We had an on-again off-again relationship, at times very close, and at times very distant. Again, it is adoption psychology. As for my siblings, we have never seen eye to eye. I have been labeled obsessed with adoption, yet not allowed to read about it, associate with other adoptees, nor write about it. Attacking me for trying to change the system, putting me down, harassing me and my adoptive mother, no, I don’t want negative people in my life, even if they are my flesh and blood. But that speaks to what adoption did to them, too. Adoption destroyed our family after our mother died. My adoptive parents gained ONE child and pampered me, while my father and siblings lost their sibling and daughter.I have my children and a few relatives from adoptive family and natural family who love me and I love them. My life is full. I have friends. Yet, I am trying to change the laws and attitudes in my own country. Posted by halforphan56 on Apr 20, 2012 at 8:23pm
Gert here…here we see JW/HO’s litany of sins that everyone commit against her. What this adoptee NEEDS to understand is that adoption did NOTHING to us birthsiblings. Adoption did not destroy the birth family. What destroy the birth family was the DEATH of our mother. The behavior of the adoptee that was found/reunioned with, is the cause of all the troubles within the family. It is not for nothing that each and everyone member of the birth family has NOT WANTED any contact with this adoptee (HO/JW) and yet she still clings to the falsehood that adoption is what destroyed everything. Boy she has one big ego, doesn’t she. And the fact that she MUST state that she has a full life and friends and a few relatives SPEAKS volumes of what she really DOESN’T have.
next we shall see another person’s comments to HO. (again I’m not posting the entire comment) and my comments will be in italics
Halforphan56, “Adoption is a class issue, the rich get babies from the poor”
Really? Remind me to call the bank and ask them where they have been hiding all my money. Ok, now that I have gotten my snarkyness out of the way lets get down to the real issues. You say that your comments have not come out of prejudice but I disagree and in fact feel you proved my point in your post and life story. I thank you truly fot sharing and feel I and hopefully others can learn from it. I think your story is certainly more effeective than name calling. That being said certainly your experiences have caused negative feelings toward adoption thus prejudism. How can they not? We are all influenced by our lives and life experiences. NONE of us pop up as fully grown adult pure and unbiased.
Gert here…the reason that HO/JW believes it is a class issue is due to her faulty logic and life circumstances. She and her adoptive mother, saw her adoption as a period of ‘babysitting’ for Joan while her birth father gained a more secure economic status than the adoptive mother had. In her libelous book, Joan goes to great detail outlining her illogic logic. She and others can not compare apples and oranges and get any kind of logical reasonable outcome. JW believes that if she WAS NOT adopted she would have had a better financial life than the one that she ended up with, once her adoptive father died and her adoptive mother’s income was further reduced upon his death. Joan and the adoptive mother, did not want to understand that when they adopted her, the birth father had NO MORE responsibility to support Joan, then or later. During all of Joan’s life her adoptive mother supported her, Joan’s disablities are from her own self-induced stress because of her hate for all things adopted and the birth family. Joan’s comments and her view of life is certainly prejudicial and comes directly from her experiences. The major problem with Joan’s retelling of her story is is that it is all from her view and impressions and never allows the other side to be heard. We have been telling her forever and here now someone else is telling her, but she will not hear them.
It would be of benefit to read the following post for more details. In her book, chapter 38, is a junk science attempt at showing her positions. The following post does contain some aspect of this ‘assessment’ pages 487-495 and some of my dissection of that can be found on this post…
You don’t need to preach to me about birth certificates or open adoption.
Gert here..this is how JW/HO operates…she only preaches.
I shared what I did because you shared first and now am sick to my stomach with surety that it will be used against me.
Gert here…and this person ought to be concerned that HO/JW would do, for if HO is threaten by any statement of another she does attack
You will never convince me that adoption shouldn’t exist. I don’t feel adoption equals the obliteration of the biological family.
Gert here…this is true, not everyone agrees with HO/JW and she will NEVER allow the other’s view to be heard, HO will attack you for having the opposing view.
I don’t expect to make an impact on you or change your opinion. To that I have to ask what is your objective in your posts? If your objective is to do something about sealed birth certificates. Please start a post, suggest why the cause is important to you. Give us some suggestions on how we can help. I will glady sign a petition. Write a letter to my congressman.
Gert here…Good question! Just what is HO’s objections and positions? on this thread? Only to beat people up! Here the commenter is offering good suggestions for HO to use, but HO/JW will never do that because it isn’t as much fun as beating people up on the internet.
If you hve suggestions of dos and don’ts in adoptive parenting I will gladly take them. But continuing in this same vein of debate seems counterproductive to all of us.
Gert here…HO/JW does not give suggestions, she gives orders! She also doesn’t see how her language and browbeating is counterproductive. She will continue to do so until she is stopped and that is what we are attempting to show, that she needs to be stopped by pro-adoption people.
I am sorry that you experienced negativity. name calling etc.regarding yourvadoption. That is one reeason I was so angered by your comments and comments of others. Because i see the negativity spreading through the population and to my son. I will not have someone telling him his mom is a vulture or baby stealer. I will not have someone telling him he has to be angry. I want his feelings to be his own, whatever they are.
Gert here…most of the negativity that HO/JW received and is receiving is from your own negative behavior to family.
we will continue seeing how and what HO/JW say to this commenter and more in part two