abuser, adoption reform, adoption reunions, being downright nasty, blaming people for your own mess, browbeating people over adoption, browbeating techniques, bullying, causing harm to your cause, intimidation, losing your credibility, narcissistic personality, turning nasty once someone disagrees with you
Some adoptees just can’t GET IT that others are NOT interested in their politics and don’t know when to shut the f… up!
Insult me, tell me I’m wrong, browbeat me, and then when I tell you to take a hike, get all pissy about it and tell me I owe you an apology! When I state my position is contrary to yours, accept that and shut up! Don’t make me BE wrong because I disagree with you. Sounds just like how Joan behaves; narcissistic behavior and all!
So when they persist in ramming their agenda down the throat of someone who has said repeatedly to STOP, and they continue ramming…they are doing just what they accuse others of doing … NOT LISTENING. Then they turn EVIL and MEAN and resort to NAME CALLING AND INSULTING. When they behave this way, they lose their credibility, they are NOT effective and they do great harm to their cause.
This happens with any and all browbeating techniques.
In this short pattern of dialog, I’m Person A. Person B is the subject of this post.
Person A sees that Person B has an agenda
Person A doesn’t want to get into it and tries to ignore Person B but
Person B continues to comment stating that
Person B disagrees with several positions of person A.
Person B continues to discuss the disputed issues.
Person A says I’m not interested
Person B continues to lay it all out and onto Person A
Person A says AGAIN, and more forcefully, I’m not interested and this is why.
Person B continues to comment on the disputed issues and says Person A is wrong.
Person A says AGAIN, don’t lecture me
Person B continues to tell Person A they are wrong
Person A finally calls an end to the discussion
Person B won’t let it go and sends private message to Person A
THAT IS AN ATTACK then
Person B still won’t let it go and puts it on Facebook
Person A leaves comment
Person B FINALLY deletes all comments
EXCEPT I have the entire dialog and comments!
And I am presenting it all here!
See Ruth’s blog for details of ‘what’ happened.
The adoptee (MM) is a former friend of Joan/Doris who befriended Ruth. MM wants Ruth to write something for her so she could present it to her birth family. So MM is sharing thoughts with Ruth and MM is commenting on various posts on Ruth’s Facebook page.
I had shared a blog post I wrote on Ruth’s Facebook page. MM decides to comment about my blog post and things quickly go off the deep end.
beginning of exchange….
MM I noticed the person above who left a comment said she was a secret. If I am reading that correctly. But from what Ruth Herr Sippel Pace and you have said it doesn’t sound to me that she was ever a secret. Sounds like you guys did know about her. Plus I mean how could you not when your poor mother died?!
Ruth Herr Sippel Pace she was NEVER a secret.
Gert Mcqueen to us she was NEVER a secret, and that is what pisses joan off, we KNEW she didn’t SHE was adopted WE were not
MM I had a feeling she wasn’t a secret. I am. So she should stop pissing and moaning about that. I had to be the one to tell although I’ve only told some. Of course my bio mother is going around telling them to pretend I don’t exist and if they talk to me they are being rude to her, which is pissing me and my adoptive mom off. She really had a chance with you guys and blew it, and it makes no common sense as to why. She’s trying to pretend she was a secret to your family? It’s very condescending to me because I literally am a secret and treated like one by the few who do know.
Gert Mcqueen according to Joan…adoption makes her and her life etc a secret…that’s part of the whole adoption reform movement, that adoption birth certificates…CREATE a falsehood and keeps secrets. I don’t agree with that…there are REAL reasons why birth certificates are changed with adoptions…NOW I do believe that adoptees should have a means to obtain their medical histories BUT that should be without knowing the parents…it’s NOT about secrets…it’s ABOUT privacy…for the parents, birth/adoptive and the child, but Joan and others are beyond reasoning with.
Gert Mcqueen To Joan as an adoptee she didn’t and could not know her birth family that’s LAW…to these adoptees that means they were secrets, that their families were secrets etc etc…
MM Gert Mcqueen Actually an amended birth certificate does keep a secret. I would know this personally. It kept my original surname and my bio parents names from me.
MM Gert Mcqueen Actually you are very wrong on this. Original birth certificates are not sealed because of privacy. Original birth certificates are not sealed for privacy for 2 reasons. Reason A. An original birth certificate is not sealed until the adoption is finalized, so if a baby is given away for adoption but ends up growing up in foster care he or she keeps his or her original birth certificate making privacy null and void. Until their day of adoption they have access to their OBC, so say a kid wants to see his OBC and isn’t adopted until his 9th birthday for some odd reason. He has access to it, the day he becomes adopted he’s not allowed to have it anymore. This makes privacy null and void. Reason B. Original birth certificates were not always sealed. In fact, Kansas and Alaska have never sealed them so adoptees there hang out to their OBC and in Alabama they only sealed for a few years. In Pennsylvania they only started to give out amended birth certificates starting in 1984 because the pro life people erroneously thought it was make fewer abortions (it made no difference). All adoptees deserve their original birth certificate and it should never be sealed.
MM Gert Mcqueen I sent you a friend request btw.
MM Gert Mcqueen “Without knowing the parents”. No, absolutely not. To say this is to say you think it’s fine for me to be a dirty secret. Remember birthparent privacy is a myth and a sugarcoated way of telling people to be someone’s “dirty secret”. As my adoptive mother says, and my own morality and common sense, it is wrong and I should be allowed to get to know my cousins, my uncles,my brother, and my sisters who are adults. No, it is NEVER ok to make someone have to play the role of “stay in the closet and be a dirty secret”. I wouldn’t wish anyone to be in the hell I am in. Please think.
MM Gert Mcqueen The child is an adoptee and not a perpetual child. We do grow up. No, we did not ask for privacy. My adoptive parents did not ask for privacy. Bio mothers don’t ask for privacy and the few that do, still should not get it, which is why I’m mad with NJ and Ontario putting in redactions when releasing the OBC. A person never deserves to allow another person to be their dirty secret, and if that brings them pain, well, that is not the fault of the adoptee, that is the fault of the adoption agency luring them to take away their kid, their own family not supporting them, or as in your case just sucky circumstances where the baby truly couldn’t be kept. But privacy? Never. For this myth of privacy and forcing others, like myself, to be a secret, is what drives the adoptee suicide rate to be so high.
MM Gert Mcqueen Bio medical info can’t be given without permission due to patient/doctor confidentiality. However, what needs to happen is to stop allowing adoption agencies to decide whether or not they want to give the medical info. Hillside of Rochester did this, refusing to give the medical info, when the bio mother wanted to give it, as her/their little girl was having massive seizures. I am sorry to say she died in her twenties. I am amazed they are still in business.
Gert Mcqueen MM I adopted my own birth son with 2nd husband, there was NO SECRET, child gave permission for adoption, sure his birth certificate was changed, but that is NO issue
Gert Mcqueen MM I really don’t care! Please! I believe that there is a need for reform but I dont’ care to get into things
Gert Mcqueen MM yes I see that you sent me a request, please NOTE that I do not accept any friend requests I only have family members period no exceptions
MM Gert Mcqueen Changing a birth certificate is a huge issue when the adoptee has no say.
MM Gert Mcqueen Ok, I understand on that.
Gert Mcqueen MM please do not lecture me on adoption politics! I adopted my own son, and my parental rights were VIOLATED by joan and her politics I will not accept anymore BS over this issue…I believe what I believe, you believe what you believe
MM Gert Mcqueen So you don’t care that I am a dirty secret. Well, thanks. Shows you have low morals.
MM Gert Mcqueen Ummmm no see I believe and know fact. That’s the difference. There is no such thing as birth parent privacy or adoptee privacy or any privacy. I just proved you wrong on that from the comments above.
Gert Mcqueen MM my child that I adopted was 16 years old…NO ADOPTIOn is the same…stop stop stop, don’t give me the adoption policts
MM Gert Mcqueen 16 is a HUGE difference here, but the way you talked it sounded like you were talking of infant adoption. You have to be more clear. If you are referring to the adoption of older kids then you are right, if I am talking about infant adoption then I am right. So both of us need to be more specific.
Gert Mcqueen MM excuse me!!! I don’t care about any adoption politics… as a mother who adopted and my family was VIOLATED by Joan Wheeler because I adopted I’ve had 30 plus years of heart ache because I’ve been condemn for the act of adoption I DO NOT have to be more specific when I talk about the fact that adoption is NOT AN EVIL I do believe that we have no more need to discuss this
MM Gert Mcqueen Wrong. It doesn’t matter if you are an adoptive mother when you state a falsehood that original birth certificates were sealed for privacy reasons when I state to you the specific facts and laws of why they are not nor ever were a secret. And I am sorry Joan Wheeler is a nincompoop and I wish she wasn’t, but that doesn’t change the facts I present to you. I never said adoption is evil. Adoption can be a blessing, but you do not ask someone to be a dirty secret and you do not seal an OBC. Adoptees deserve their OBC like any other person if they ask for them. As for thinking adoption is evil that’s just silly talk and I never said that. Some kids need to be adopted. I was not one of them but your son surely was.
Gert Mcqueen I am NOT responsible for anyone but myself and my children when they were minor and I will not be lectured to or judged by anyone Megan Mary…the laws are the laws I didn’t make them and I can’t change them please NEVER talk to me again about adoption I shall NEVER SEE IT YOUR WAY so please stop commenting to me…good night
MM Ruth Herr Sippel Pace Amazing how your sister thinks she is right that original birth certificates are sealed for privacy reasons when I just gave her a lesson in law, state and federal, proving that original birth certificates are never sealed for privacy reasons, but I guess some people have an ego that is too big to oh wait, know they were wrong. Nor did your sister bother to apologize to me in saying that the bio parent has a right to stay hidden which means has a right to keep us adoptees as dirty secrets so that only lead me to think your sister thinks it’s ok for us adoptees to be dirty secrets (maybe I am wrong but it sure sounds like she thinks it’s ok for me to be a dirty secret). Sorry but my own adoptive mother would strongly disagree with everything Gert thinks. Your sister has a lot to learn when it comes to why OBCs are sealed, she just refuses to believe it.
Gert Mcqueen MM are you brain dead? can’t you get it when a person tells you to stop lecturing them? who the hell do you think you are to tell me that I’m wrong? my lawyer, my judge? my ego…is that something that you NEED to judge? I should apologize to you because you OFFENDED me? I DON’T HAVE anything more to learn about adoption…Megan YOU NEED TO LEARN TO STOP BERATING PEOPLE. continue to belive what you want about me, doesn’t matter, you MEAN NOTHING TO ME…go away
END of exchange…
BUT she can’t let go…
She sends me a private message AFTER I told her to get lost…this is consider not only rude but an attack.
MM NO you showed your true colors when you decided to say you think birthparent privacy exists and even worse should exist. Which equivalates to being someone’s dirty secret. So thanks for telling ME it’s ok for my bio family to treat me like utter shit. That is showing your true colors. And thanks for showing ME your true colors in deciding to totally not listen at all to the REAL reason why OBCs are and were sealed, which is NOT privacy and Kansas and Alaska prove that!
I then send a private message to Ruth…
sorry but I dislike mary megan she’s an asshole, I should be more specific??? NO she needs to stop her adoption propaganda with someone , me, who has adopted,, I will not tolerate that person’s BS anymore
THEN I checked her Facebook page…here want I found MINUTES after she sent me a PM
Megan Mary 6 mins · Think it’s okay for adoptees to be someone’s dirty little secret grow some morals because your thinking strategy is disgusting. Just unfriended someone because they and their sister believe in the falsehood of “birthparent privacy” after I explained to them IT DOES NOT EXIST and that it’s fine for adoptees to be someone’s secret. The one bitch replies with “I’m an adoptive mother, I don’t needa lecture and won’t see it your way”. It’s not, my way, and it’s state, provincial, and federal law. My goodness eejits need to pick up a law book for once, even if it’s only where you’re from! I’m sitting here knowing law in multiple states, provinces, and nations, but I guess not everyone wants to be intelligent. Does it look like I give a rat’s behind you adopted? My own adoptive mother thinks you’re a word that rhymes with punt. Shoes belong in the closet. Not people!
Zoë Hildebrand people and their bollocks.
AND my comment to her, on her Facebook page…
Gert Mcqueen nice going! showed your true colors didn’t you
AT THAT she deleted all comments
SO…pious little girl that she is…shows her true colors…typical with these types of adoptees.